As an organized person, I have to live in a messy house!

I wouldn't leave it clean, let them see what stress looks like.

I experienced the same situation; now I only keep my own spaces clean. I left the common areas completely chaotic and measured the reaction. Honestly, there's not much left behind.

Have you ever spoken properly? Maybe the poor guy isn't even aware.

@soncaykaldi I actually mentioned my discomfort a few times, but not much has changed; sometimes they even respond in a dismissive or joking manner.

@aklimkaldi then why are you still living in the same place? You were already getting annoyed. It's not something to endure outside of necessity 😳

One thing I've heard: setting 'cleaning days in rotation' for common areas and leaving a little humorous note about the process can be effective. However, if the person's personality is particularly insensitive, this may not yield results, so then a new arrangement should be considered.

@benbisorayim these people aren’t going to change with a note or anything, sorry. You know, it should be shown like a broom, I won’t pull it.

How much does she pollute or how does she distribute it, is there a specific example? Maybe some things are normal for her, but can be excessive for you. One person's understanding of cleanliness might not match another's, so first check if the boundaries are clear 🤦‍♀️.

There is an acceptable level of mess, and then there's the kind of mess that falls on you like an avalanche. Is there courage in the midst of it, or is it total "abandonment"? For example, do you clear the dishes weekly, or is there a moment when you’re holding a Marlboro, and behind you, the ‘Messy Homes’ soundtrack is playing? Let's clarify.

I think those laugh-it-off moments are basically the summary of the situation. They don't see it as a serious issue because they think you can "handle it." Just don’t lift a finger for a while and let's see who will come crashing down on you like a snowball 😳

It makes sense to avoid touching it for a while, but sometimes that doesn't work, because some people continue to live even under that snow. So the "threshold for discomfort" can be very low. For example, have you considered that those dishes might pile up, start to smell, yet still not be cared about? Then a more direct conversation is necessary, because the issue might not just be a habit, but an attitude as well.

Yes, the issue of this discomfort threshold is correct, but sometimes the situation is not just about the understanding of cleanliness; it can also be a general case of "procrastinating life." In other words, clutter is not the cause, it's actually the result. If someone has let things go this much, what else might be shaking in their life?

Maybe it's not "cleaning reluctance," but a protest against something else. In other words, making a mess or not tidying up could actually be an expression of inner unrest. So what if that's the case? Are there any details that would make it noticeable?

I think things like "protest clean-up" are overloading the meaning. Maybe it's just plain laziness or a lack of decorum? Let’s not tie every mess to psychology; sometimes it simply means they "aren't doing it."

I think there's no need to exaggerate some things too much, but sometimes a person's mood can indeed be connected to cleanliness. Maybe talking about it is more important at first; there might be more going on than you think. Habits can only take you so far, but this attitude issue can be a bit annoying.

But what if the job is not about "comfort" at all, but rather a pure power play? I mean, could it be that they assign you the role of the "cleaner" while completely distancing themselves from this role? It’s almost like they’re controlling the area by spreading chaos everywhere... The part about what happens if you don’t clean up is crucial, because they might actually be testing your boundaries as well.

When you are tidy, his messiness becomes more noticeable. Maybe he is reflecting his discomfort back to you by making a mess of the house. Have you ever thought about whether you would stay this tidy if you were alone? Sometimes living together even blurs one's own boundaries.

I noticed something: could your effort to stay organized amidst all this mess be a kind of "need for control"? That is, as you try to control things, there might be a dynamic where they let go even more. Perhaps the real issue is not cleanliness but rather how much each person is interfering in each other's space. Do you think there is a "who's dominant" situation here?

This situation really does carry many dynamics. Perhaps it’s not just the messiness, but there is a communication problem between the two of you. After all, the state of the home also affects a person's mood. Maybe it's time to add some deeper thinking into the mix.

So have you ever looked into how the household chores are divided? Is the sharing of other responsibilities fair, aside from the messiness part? If there is inconsistency there too, it might have turned into a general burden-sharing problem rather than just a specific "cleaning" issue.

Let's say there is indeed stress, passive aggression, etc. involved; if this mess signifies something, then why is the solution always you staying organized? I mean, if the message is at an issue point, why is it always you that needs to be corrected? What would happen if you let go for a while, would the imbalance become clearer?

Trying to stay organized in a messy home is actually like a challenge to oneself. But here's the thing: if this is a shared living space, why is only your sensitivity pushing the limits of tolerance? Perhaps there should be a middle ground regarding clutter; everyone should know how much they are responsible for. Have you ever had a clear conversation like, "How much mess can you tolerate?"

Is it possible that no one leaves their seating area tidy when they get up? I mean, if the total of daily, simple actions creates this mess, it indicates there is a gap even in basic responsibility. Before searching for a major solution, it is necessary to find a method to make daily behaviors noticeable.

I think we need to clarify this: Is this person actually happy with their mess, or are they uncomfortable with it but unable to find a solution? Because sometimes messy people can actually be stuck in chaos. Have you tried asking directly, "Aren't you bothered by your mess?"

Perhaps the issue isn't just about messiness but rather the answer to the question "why should I tidy up?" In other words, if one person is messy and the other is organized, it indicates an inequality in the responsibility sharing. Why is your order perceived as a necessity rather than just an individual choice?

We're discussing so many details, but perhaps that person isn't defending their messiness. I mean, letting it go might not be a "decision" but just a reflexive behavior. Have you ever thought to specifically ask, "Why is it so hard for you to clean up?" They might not even be aware of it themselves.

Maybe the issue is not just "messiness," but a power struggle? I mean, it's a situation of who can dominate whose space, who influences whom more. For some people, whether you can clean up that mess might even be a game that tests how much patience you have. Have you thought about such a possibility?

Have you considered dividing the house into individual spaces instead of common ones through the issue of mess? I mean, everyone takes their own responsibility and agrees with minimal interference in the shared areas. Maybe once the boundaries are clear, it creates less conflict.

Perhaps the threshold for the other side is constantly being raised because of your efforts to stay consistent. As you accumulate, the boundary for them might be loosening even more. Have you ever thought about completely letting go and observing how much you're stuck?

In the issue of messiness, sometimes the question of "at what level of messiness" is overlooked. For one person, there may be a few books on the table, while for another, even a single cup can create chaos. Has the possibility that your idea of "order" may be perceived as "excessive sensitivity" by the other party ever been discussed?

Another option could be that the other person does not evaluate their mess in the same framework as someone who is organized. For example, if they say, "Being messy is just like this, I need to tidy it up" instead of "This is my living space, I feel better this way," they might not see your discomfort at all. Is the issue really about order/messiness, or could it be a difference in perception?

Maybe the answer to the question "what happens if someone else tidies up" is missing? That is, it might be assumed that you will always be the one to clean up because you are organized. Has the other person ever said, "I don’t want anything to be cleaned up for a week"? Perhaps they haven’t considered the real cost of that mess.

Maybe the issue isn't just about "tidying up," but about not being bothered by the consequences of the mess around. In other words, if someone isn't constantly searching for things and is insensitive to bad smells/clogs, then that mess might not really be a problem for them. Do you think that person takes the consequences of the mess seriously? Perhaps that's where we need to have a conversation.

Maybe your tidiness makes his mess more noticeable? Without you, that chaos might not even be noticeable. So, could it be that the mess exists a bit because of your organization? 😐

Perhaps the issue isn't the clutter itself, but the burden it creates for you. So, is being organized a choice for you, or is it a necessity to feel comfortable? The other side might not understand this "necessity" 😂

Ours had taken piling the dishes on the counter to a whole new level, saying, "I'll just clean up at the end of the day." But for me, seeing that pile in the morning raises my stress levels for the day. Is your counterpart aware of these daily effects? Your discomfort seems to be chronic, not just "momentary."

Have you also thought about this aspect: Could the issue be not the level of clutter, but the feeling of who owns the place? For example, as you tidy up, it might create a sense of "this space is not under my control." Instead of defending something related to your own order, could it be that the question of "who is decisive here" is being debated?

This is also a possibility: Clutter can sometimes function as a conscious defense mechanism. For example, could it be turning into a struggle for relationship/space through the notion of "This is how I am, accept it"? Don't you think this could turn into a rather passive-aggressive boundary for someone who is usually organized?

For some people, clutter becomes something like an expression of freedom rather than control. As you try to fix it, they might perceive it as an intrusion on their freedom. Do you think that’s why they resist, or are they completely indifferent?

But why does this freedom thing only work one way? If being messy is freedom, then being tidy can't be your freedom too, right? Why is it always your job to clean up?

So, what if there is no search for a "common ground" between being orderly and being messy? In other words, could it be that both sides are so invested in their own habits that the issue transforms into a battle over who will take up more space rather than finding a solution?

If there's a struggle between messiness and order, both sides need to ask themselves the question "why this way." But sometimes, the issue isn't about habits; it can be entirely about power dynamics. If while sharing a home, one person is cast in the role of "rule maker" and the other as "compliant," then messiness might just be a symbol. Have you ever taken the test of "what happens if I don't clean up," or are you always the one closing the gaps?

The "What happens if I don't clean up?" test is nice, but what if this test doesn't create awareness on the other side? I mean, could they reach a point where they can't stand the mess themselves after a while, or will they keep leaving it to you because they know it bothers you? If the test doesn't yield results, another method will need to be tried.